Kirkbride Buildings - Historic Insane Asylums Forum

Thank you so very much for sharing with us. I could/can never imagine what you went through and I understand how painful it can be dredging up these memories.

I hope that sharing this with us is helping you a bit and anyone else who you knew from back then.

I have wanted to tell this story for a long time, I just never could make myself face up it. Nor could I find the words. I got tired of all the hours/days/weeks/months/years, of searching for other kids like me, I also got mad at all the false stories I have read by them co called relatives. The story is told and I have 3 others here who can back up my story if they choose to do so, (1 staff and 2 other kids). I am glad its over and it all has been told. It did bring many of tears to my face and I did lose it for just a few minutes. I do hope other kids, now can find us, and come home. I do hope this does not turn out to be "Another Fine Mess" that I got myself into. Thank you for your kind words.

One more thing.
Note!! There are no ghosts in Traverse City State Hospital, the ghosts are in your head.

Kirkbride wrote:Nice music, ronl! And thanks for sharing all the memories about Traverse City. I hope you get to reconnect with more people like mkfarnam through this forum.

It's good to hear that you have at least some positive memories from the hospital and that it wasn't all bad -- although I understand that you have bad memories too. Overall, what's your opinion on the move away from keeping people at hospitals long-term? Do you think it's a good thing that fewer people experience that these days? Or do you think there were positive things about your experience that you wouldn't have gotten without a long-term stay?

Kirkbride,
I'm not quite sure how to take your question(s) But I'm going to assume it was meant in a poitive way.
I would just like to say that, there is no comparison in the long term stays of today(if any) to the long term stays back then. If long term stay still went on today, they would be completely different. For one simple reason. today there are Laws and Patients Rights,and of course, technology. And the patients and their families have more control over they're rights.
Back then, there may have been some rights and laws, but enforcement was as good as obsolete. Mainly because, what happened at TCSH, stayed at TCSH. We were informed this more than once, and most of us were told to keep our mouth shut.
Today, if a nurse was the same way as some were back then, she would never last on the job, if she ever got hired.
First let me say, there were very good nurses and staff members and there were very bad ones.
The bad ones never had a smile on their face. They always had a mean, hateful look and it always expressed their attitrude they had towards us kids.
Everything they said to any of us was insulting and downgrading, noone wanted tro be seen by Dr Thill because he was the same way. They treated us like we were no better then a pile of dog sh!%.
What I'm getting at is, and to clearify (but not condone) the type of hellish lifestyle Ronl went through, alot of the paients, after years of mistreatment and abuse, left there depression, with everything they were told embedded inside of them and carried it with them through a good portion of there adult lives. That's because everything was held in, and I for one can tell you that noone in my Family knows 90% of what happened back then.
In other words i'm trying say that, Hospital stays of today, whether long or short term, and the hospital stays 40 + years ago are 2 completely different stories.
I agree with Ronl, noone should have to re-live yesterday.

Most of this is behind us so please. don't think that we're looking for sympathy because we're not, I guess you could say that we're soul searching.

when I see this picture I see another time.


click image for a full-sized view

At the end of this hall I see the pool table that was there.
I see the cast iron steam heater under the window.
I see 2 of the 3 seclusion rooms on the right this side, next to the stairs.
I see the hard maple chairs with arm rests lining the walls.
I see the 2 rooms on the left that I use to sleep in.
I see the shinny tiles on the floor.
Most of all I see my friends, thou now all their faces are a blur.
I use to dream often that I would go back there and knock on the door and asking them to let me come home, and they did.
Some day before I die I would like to visit and face my last fear. Maybe then, I will be able to rest in peace.

When I see this picture


click image for a full-sized view

I see the seclusion rooms, upper floor top 2 windows on the right (not the attic/dormer the tree is blocking the 3rd window). Note the small windows, they were high off the floor and I had to stretch to look out them. Each window was 1 room, there were 3 rooms called seclusion.
I remember playing baseball, (in my head and really to this day it was real to me), hundreds of games I played, hitting the ball over he other buildings and a broken window or 2 on the other buildings. I also remember hitting balls on the roof and running over and catching them. It still seems so real, but I now know that it was all played in my head.
I remember doing laps round and around the room I would walk till I dropped, It was like an animal in a cage.
I remember how cold it was in them rooms. Shivering all night long. I use to raise hell in there to get them to give me a hypo to knock me out so I could sleep and not notice the cold.
I remember having to pee so bad and the staff would only let you out to go to the bathroom a few times a day.
I also remember climbing the door hings and grabbing the conduit pipe on ceiling to hold myself up to look out through the heavy screen mesh to see the other kids and watch TV, it drove the staff nuts that we could do this. 2 of the 3 rooms you could watch TV from.
I also remember the clean starched pressed white uniforms the staff wore with the big chains with keys on them.

Yep them pictures really take me back.

Here is the correct floor plan
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click image for a full-sized view
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This has memories too, note the toilet #4, it had 4 open stalls, even thou it was cleaned daily it was gross. It seems someone would always wipe their crappy fingers and smear it on the walls. Every morning the toilets were full of dead mice/rats from the traps and this is how they were disposed of.
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Next the shower #3 it was an open shower with 4 nozzles, we would have to line up at 7:30 PM and they would make up strip and shower with 4-8 at a time, than we would go to the window of the clothes room and underwear were given, usually the wrong size, (too big), lol than hanging on the window was our tooth brushes and yes we brushed our teeth.
I also remember pajamas was issued too. I will never forget the nakedness thou.
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Down the hall from the shower was the hallway to the big dorm, 20+ beds, I slept there a few times, sleeping quarters were a privilege earned and lost at a moments notice. Bedrooms were a privilege, I remember once having the bed next to the door going to the dining room and was watching the bottom of the door and could see mice/rats coming in our dorm from under that door.
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I once woke up screaming and a roach was in my ear, wow this was awful, it has to be the worst feeling possible, the 2 attendants on the 3rd shift, first laugh at me than 1 held me down and the other pored rubbing alcohol in my ear, this burned like crazy but it killed the roach, than they pulled it out in pieces with hemostats.
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I remember 1 other kid had a roach in his nose one night.
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I once woke to a slight noise on my pillow "scratch, scratch" and turned to see a rat on my pillow, I went to the moon.
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I hate rats/mice.

note the toilet #4, it had 4 open stalls

This means there were no dividers.
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In 1965-1966 there were a few old men on this ward, I do not know why, In 1966 they all were moved except 1, Jason, about ??.30.?? He ran the clothes room and did our sewing. He had a silly hair doo, and no-one better touch it, he never spoke much, he was very quiet.
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I always hated them looking at me in the shower.
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Growing up in the late 60's there, they took the real world away the best they could, I use to think the real world was like the TV shows we seen, like the Monkeys and pictures from music albums, note our music was censored too. I did not hear of Woodstock until 1971. We did not watch the news either, that all there was was Vietnam.
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I read a few books once, Zane Gray, heck I thought the west was still like that until I went there in 1971 after my release.
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Thats enough for today.

Suicide:
Most everyone tried to committed suicide. Almost every day someone was busting out them little windows and cutting their wrists. I never did that. I did take one of Mikes Pills, and it knocked me off my feet, and the staff confused this for suicide. I also heard of people hanging themselves. The Willow pond was not a suicide hole, it was only 16" deep and about 30' across, and was in front of the administration building and next to the outdoor bandstand/tennis court. In Plane View.
The one thing I always hated was someone busting out the windows in my bedroom, It always took the repair people days sometimes a week to fix them, and in the winter it brought in the cold. I do not like being cold. Thats why I live in Florida.
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The Tunnel:
The tunnel was a big tunnel which ran from the Canteen, Building 50 in the center to the administration building, than on to the theater. Their were side tunnels too which ran off of them, these were always locked. All the steam pipes and electoral was run through it. It was always hot in there. During the winter all the snow would be melted from it, and a sidewalk was placed on top of it. I always enjoyed my 1000 trips through it.
There were tunnels which ran to the cottages and other buildings, these were not really walkways, like the big tunnel.
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School:
Was a place we always felt safe in, I loved the staff there. Boys and girls were together, 9 AM school started, 10:30 we had a 15 minute break. 10:45-12 class again. 12-1 Lunch, 1-2:30 class than another 15 minute break. 2:45 till 4 PM class. The school was located above the administration building, 3rd floor, A+B, this was next (connecting) to receiving C and D-3.
Regardless of your grade the teachers taught about 3 grade each. School was very easy, no homework. As I stated earlier Mr. Bailey taught grade school, Mr. Higgins taught Junior High, and Mr. Cook taught High School. We also had shop class too, 2 times a week, I went through wood class and welding this was done in cottage 36.
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Cottage 36:
Wow what a place, it had shop class in the basement, on the first floor was a shoe repair shop and the printing shop, I did work in the print shop in my later years. The upper floor we had other class rooms, like home ecc, lol Typing class was there also. I learned to type 60 words a minute there, I spell correctly about 15 of them words, I am dyslexic, that wasn't a word than and not much was known about it back then.
Cottage 36 was turned into a boys ward in 1970, when the new children's hospital was built.

The Bandstand:
This looked like a mini "Hollywood Bowl" and had a concrete dance area in front. It also had 2 tennis courts in front of the dance area. Off to its left was "Willow Lake". To its right was a complete world class miniature "Golf Course" which would have challenged even Tiger Woods. I remember getting so flustered with it and whacking the ball to ?? Others did this too.
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Hippy Tree:
On the hill above the tennis, was this tree, If any tree was called the "Hippy Tree" This was it. We had a picnic table set up under this and we were the closest thing to a hippy that was ever under this tree. We were not hippy's just want-to-be teenagers who thought we were cool.
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Activity Director:
The bandstand was run by a nice lady in her late 20's, who was the hospital activity director, she would play the music we wanted to hear and would give us cans of coke from the coke machine for free, as we did not have the quarters/money to buy it.
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Baseball:
We had all the correct stuff to play baseball and did so on the hill in an open area overlooking the bandstand, between canteen and all faiths chapel.
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The Canteen:
The canteen , was a snack bar small dinner with 6 pool tables in it. This was located in the new part of building 50 smack in the middle and protruded out, it was a square 2 story structure??, This was next to hall-7 2nd Floor. I always remembering that its style did not go with the old buildings. I put together this picture as I remember it.
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click image for a full-sized view
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I remember the library being 2nd floor in back of the canteen, they had old records in there too. I remember seeing an old 45 RPM, and it said the band was the Beatles, but the label was foreign to me, and the song was "When The saints Go Marching In" I wish I had that record today.
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Behind the canteen were a bunch of buildings, see picture,
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click image for a full-sized view
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I remember a few of us were taken to a warehouse and in there was a Float being built for the Cherry Festival Parade, and we got to help put on the decorations on it. I never seen it again.

After re-reading all of this, it appears that life was nice for us kids. ........... At a moments notice your life would change, and it did not have to be your fault, you may not have had anything to do with it, but it would changed.
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Yes we were "Brats", but if you take a lion from Africa and put him into a pen, no matter how much you think you are making it like home, it isn't. Some staff went out of their way to make your stay miserable, and memorial. We were always reminded of hopelessness, despair. Wishing and praying, just does not work.
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I had no concept of the day I was to be released until the day came, this was true for all the other children. I had a belief I was going to be there forever.
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click image for a full-sized view
This is a 1969 version of the painting, the "Screaming Man", from the album "In The Court Of The Crimson King" My all time favorate album.
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It was a few years after I left TCSH, until I seen the painting of a person screaming holding his face, no-one had to tell me why, I just knew his pain, I knew his name, I seen him before, it was a painting of me.

Love:
In 1967-1969 I was in love, she was from Hall-7, my age and real cute, slim, wore glasses, just like me. We were both blond and blue eyes as I remember she may have had hazel eyes??. I remember seeing her for the first time at lunch time in the mess hall during school, it was love at first sight. She was on C-3 receiving, at this time. As soon as she was moved to hall-7 and started school, we became inseparable. On Sundays we would always sit together in church, we were catholics and went to church 1 hour before the rest went. Note there were only a few who were catholics. I remember having sex for the first time with her in the closet at school. Every school trip during the summer we always held hands on the bus. We always dance holding each other tightly. This is a hole other story...... Than in 1969, I was taken to the office and ask about our love affair and was told she was pregnant. I was put in seclusion and never seen her again. I have never forgot my first love. I always wondered who was my only sibling. I did have crushes on a few other girls from Hall-7 after she left, but they did not have a crush on me.
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Hate:
I have always hated Dr. Thill, he never said much, but when he did talk, you were in deep trouble. He always looked down when he walked, and never smiled, even when you were being nice to him he would bite, like a bad dog. He is the only staff member I have never forgave. If there is a hell, he is Satins right hand man.
I hate instant potatoes and asparagus, I hate being reminded that this was an insane asylum and that I was really there. I hate seclusion, I hate pedophiles, I hate liars and I hated god.

The Theater:
Thou I was in there hundreds of times I do not know its location, we always went by way of the tunnel. It was at the end of the tunnel past the administration building. The windows were real high off the floor so I could never see out them. The theater was a Gym as well, it had a basketball court in it, at one end the basket folded under the stage. The other it was fixed to the wall. I was short and could never make a basket so it wasn't much fun.The walls were lined with chairs, them cold metal ones, more were stored in the back. At one end was the girls bathroom and at the other end was the mens. It had a stage also complete with curtains it stood about 5' off the floor. They had a dance there for the hospital every Friday in the winter months and had a hospital band. I once got to play on that stage one Friday night. I played "Light My Fire" this took them by surprise. I played it on a first run "Gibson Les Paul guitar" the theater had. I wonder where this guitar went after the closing. Somebody has a real high priced guitar in their collection. I remember the fret board was like hard rubber too, odd the new models I have owned wasn't like that.
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Sit And Stare:
I remember those who just sat in a chair all day and stared. Even when you sat next to them and talked to them they just stared. These were lost ones. Funny I find myself doing this even today.
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I also remember the noise, These days I prefer the sounds of nature. I remember the song "Sounds Of Silence" and wishing it was so. more on this..the music later.

60 Beds:
I can only speak on Hall-18 on this but there were 60 beds on hall 18, plus the "3" seclusion rooms, all of which were always full. I remember once in 1968 we had a crisis, Full To Capacity, anywhere a bed could go it was placed. Than they moved a few kids the "Good Ones" to Hall-20, a non lock hall, come and go as you please. I seen that being good gets you there, and from than on I lived an institutional life, yes sir, yes mam, I gave them very little problems, it late 1969 I made it to Hall-20. When I went to Hall-20 a new RN nurse on Hall-18 went there too, Mrs Wormenton, She also moved to the children's hospital with me too, May I note I also knew her family than and her husband was a State Police Officer, and in 1980 was the force behind me coming clean with drugs and alcohol. Thanks Worm.
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Hall-20:
It was an unlocked 2 story Hall for young people across the back court yard from Hall-18, No-Drugs no Punishment, just eat and sleep and go where you need to be. Meals were not forced on you, a time was given when you could go to the mess hall and you ate if you were hungry. You would be woke up at 7:30 AM, and your day began. I was there until the new children's hospital was built.
You could smoke if you had them. I remember this smoking device to light cigarettes, it was plugged into a wall socket 5' above the floor and you would stick your cigarette in it and press a button and your cigarette would light. The electric match.
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New Children's Hospital:
In 1970 I was the first person to be moved to the new children's hospital. This was located past cottage 36 in the farm area. It had duel wards and an office in the middle with wide open windows so you could see through the office to the other side. There was a door connecting these 2 and dunning the day it was open. The boys about 10, were on 1 side, and the girls about 10 were on the other, this was really cool. The girls side had a small kitchen. There was 1 other one of these setups too. Both setups shared a cafeteria style mess hall. The school and cottages ate there too. All the other children was placed in Cottage 34, 36 and recently re-modeled. Cottage 34 was for the girls, and cottage 36 was for the boys. I was in for a few hours cottage 36 before I left at a dance they had for us kids, and it was a nice cottage.
In the new hospital was the new school, complete with a gym, swimming pool, theater and music room, efforts were really made to make life confortable and it was. I could have lived there forever. It was really nice, and they added new staff too. All the bad staff were weeded out by this time. For the first time I really felt safe and free. I was here until end of January 1971, than the door was opened and I got the boot. I was a 12 year boy at 18 hitting the upside down world that the 60's made.

Back To The Beginning:
Receiving, this was the place, everyone, who went to Traverse City State Hospital seen first. D-3 and D-4 were the mens wards and C-3 and C-4 were the womens wards.. This was behind the bandstand and connected to the administration building. It had red bricks.
I was on D-4, I remember the stripping of all my clothes and the looking and prodding of my body, I felt very small, all my meager possessions were taken away. I remember millions of questions by many people at the same time, I was afraid and confused. I remember the narrow hallway with the small rooms and the steal doors with a little window in them and no window looking out. It was dark! I remember the day room where everyone young and old sat all day long being very quiet. I was the only child there. I remember looking out the window and seeing the other children walking in a long line 2 by 2 coming to ?? and going to ??. I remember the peculiar smell. I remember the local radio station which there was only 1 and only 1 hour a day was rock and roll music played. I remember putting puzzles together and never finishing them because all the pieces were not there. I also remember an enema being forced upon me, I have never figured out why. I remember people flipping out at a moments notice. I remember the EEG ? with all them wires attached to my head, and the ink blocks and more and more questions, always questions.
One day I was taken to D-1 (C-1 was for women) for occupational therapy and I made a so called wallet. My stay was 30 days and then I was transfered to Hall-18. Receiving was the place to get you ready for your long stay, like a sort of boot camp. This was awful. This was in January 1965.
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On D-2 and C-2 were the medical wards (this was under our school) , dental, foot Dr's, Surgery, and the place where lobotomies, as well as shock treatment, were preformed in the past. This equipment was still there and I seen it and I was told what they were and used for. I did not know that they could not use it anymore. I thought I was next.
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I am sorry for the back and forth time line, my memories have no time line, I am writing this, as my memories come back to me. Some are brought on my a picture, a smell, a sound, a color, and the rest as I write.

As I write this ongoing tread of my younger years, it is getting easier to write, I have even invited my family and few friends, to read it, as I write it.
The tears and all my fears are gone. I am now free.